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RE: URGENT NAv6TF Chair Request : RE: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6 news - we ekly summary

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From: Bound, Jim (Jim.Bound@hp.com)
Date: 09/18/06


moonv6 post from "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com> JF, thanks for this mail.

/jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JF Tremblay [mailto:jean-francois.tremblay@hexago.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:59 AM
> To: Bound, Jim; Bill Cerveny; Christopher L. Morrow; McGuerty, Jay S.
> Cc: Chris Mitchell; Durand, Alain; Dave Green; Joya Subudhi;
> nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> Subject: Re: URGENT NAv6TF Chair Request : RE: [moonv6] RE:
> Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6 news - we ekly summary
>
> If anyone is interested to discuss Vista and IPv6, there's a
> forum on this topic on go6.net (empty for now):
> <http://forum.go6.net/>. Feel free to discuss...
>
> JF
> <go.6 admin hat>
>
> --On Monday, September 18, 2006 6:45 AM -0400 "Bound, Jim"
> <Jim.Bound@hp.com> wrote:
>
> > moonv6 post from "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com> All Members,
> >
> > I want the rhetoric regarding Vista to stop NOW and refences to any
> > testing of any specific vendor too. All vendors are
> affected by this
> > technology discussion. I encourage continuing this
> discussion but I
> > must now ask as Chair to stop now referencing Microsoft Vista it is
> > totally of out line at this point. It was fine initially
> and Chris did
> > a nice thing responding. I could do this with every vendors
> > implementation on this list, and it is unfair for such NAv6TF
> > discussion for Vista. Please keep the discussion going but
> reference
> > technology and architecture and needs of IPv6 and get off of
> > identifying vendors.
> >
> > I assume my mail here is crystal clear? If you don't get
> it send me
> > private mail but I am traveling so cannot respond as usual
> but I will.
> >
> > We do NOT DISCUSS VENDORS or any specific IMPLEMENTATION in
> the NAv6TF
> > other a minimal discussion for support and understanding the market
> > implementation of IPv6. Unless of course the
> implementation is public
> > domain code base.
> >
> > Thank You for your support and understanding, /jim Chair NAv6TF
> > www.nav6tf.org
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
> >> [mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cerveny
> >> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:21 AM
> >> To: Christopher L. Morrow; McGuerty, Jay S.
> >> Cc: Chris Mitchell; Durand, Alain; Dave Green; Joya Subudhi;
> >> nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> >> Subject: RE: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf]
> >> IPv6 news - we ekly summary
> >>
> >> I'm personally less concerned about the additional DNS
> request as I
> >> am about what assumptions Vista is making about its connectivity
> >> (although it is a good thing to clarify that DNS servers
> won't melt
> >> down ;-) ). In my opinion, Vista shouldn't be asking for
> AAAA records
> >> when it has no expectation it will reach the host via IPv6
> or ask for
> >> an A record when it has no expectation it will reach the host via
> >> IPv4. From what Chris Mitchell at Microsoft has said and
> Dave Green
> >> has verified (thanks Chris and Dave!), this appears to be
> the case,
> >> except perhaps for some behavior associated with Teredo.
> >>
> >> To take this a step further, what happens when a Vista box is
> >> connected to an isolated IPv6 network, although it is connected to
> >> the global IPv4 Internet, and can retrieve AAAA records on DNS for
> >> hosts beyond it's isolated IPv6 network (but reachable via IPv4)?
> >> For example if I entered "www.kame.net" in IE or Firefox from the
> >> isolated IPv6 network with global IPv4 connectivity and got a AAAA
> >> record for www.kame.net. With Windows XP, I could experience a
> >> noticeable period where the operating system is figuring
> out that it
> >> can't reach www.kame.net via IPv6 and finally decides to
> reach it via
> >> IPv4.
> >>
> >> This scenario will certainly happen as large enterprise IPv6
> >> roll-outs occur and for whatever reason, there are intended or
> >> unintended pockets of isolated IPv6 connectivity within the
> >> enterprise. Whenever this behavior occurred with Windows XP, the
> >> rational administrator response was to disable IPv6 on the
> computer
> >> (and the problem did go away). For
> >> IPv6 to be successful on Vista, the operating system must recover
> >> quickly enough that the user doesn't notice any
> discernible delay.
> >> The user or network administrator shouldn't assume that a fix to a
> >> network problem is to "turn off" IPv6 on Vista.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:05:16 +0000 (GMT), "Christopher L. Morrow"
> >> <christopher.morrow@verizonbusiness.com> said:
> >> > On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, McGuerty, Jay S. wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > moonv6 post from "McGuerty, Jay S."
> >> <JAY.S.MCGUERTY@saic.com> Folks,
> >> > > In our testing of VISTA we do see continual period
> >> attempts by VISTA to
> >> > > find the default Teredo server (and others). As of
> >> VISTA build 5436 we
> >> > > simply shut
> >> > > down the Teredo interface and that stops it. We do see
> >> the AAAA record
> >> >
> >> > I assume your test host wasn't in a domain? (default
> >> behaviour was to
> >> > NOT do terado if there was a domain association)
> >> >
> >> > > lookup
> >> > > first (I personally think it is a great idea) like many
> >> of the "sky
> >> > > is falling IPv6 alarms"
> >> > > it seems to me this much to do about nothing. We
> >> super sized our DNS
> >> > > server
> >> > > knowing that more of our dual stack environment was going
> >> to depend
> >> > > on DNS resolution anyway.
> >> >
> >> > you super sizing your DNS server means something completely
> >> different
> >> > to Alain or me... :( There is a concern, and a valid one
> I believe,
> >> > though one we'll have to get used it seems.
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > v/r
> >> > >
> >> > > Jay
> >> > >
> >> > > _____
> >> > >
> >> > > From: owner-moonv6@io.iol.unh.edu on behalf of Chris Mitchell
> >> > > Sent: Sat 9/16/2006 10:58 AM
> >> > > To: Durand, Alain; green@commandinformation.com;
> >> bill@wjcerveny.com;
> >> > > joya@subudhi.com; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> >> > > Subject: RE: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re:
> [nav6tf] IPv6
> >> > > news - weekly summary
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > moonv6 post from Chris Mitchell <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
> >> > > Alain,
> >> > >
> >> > > The current design in Vista is that Teredo addresses
> will not be
> >> > > registered in DNS and will not cause AAAA record look ups
> >> unless an
> >> > > application is actively using IPv6 via the Teredo tunnel.
> >> In other
> >> > > words, "out-of-the-box" Vista systems that are not
> actively using
> >> > > Teredo will NOT cause AAAA record look ups.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Chris Mitchell
> >> > > Group Program Manager
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Durand, Alain [mailto:Alain_Durand@cable.comcast.com
> >> > > <mailto:Alain_Durand@cable.comcast.com> ]
> >> > > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 3:00 AM
> >> > > To: Chris Mitchell; green@commandinformation.com;
> >> > > bill@wjcerveny.com; joya@subudhi.com; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com;
> >> > > moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> >> > > Subject: Re: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re:
> [nav6tf] IPv6
> >> > > news - weekly summary
> >> > >
> >> > > Could someone clarify how this reconcile with teredo
> >> automatic IPv6
> >> > > connectivity establishment?
> >> > >
> >> > > - Alain.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: owner-moonv6@io.iol.unh.edu <owner-moonv6@io.iol.unh.edu>
> >> > > To: Dave Green <green@commandinformation.com>; Bill Cerveny
> >> > > <bill@wjcerveny.com>; Joya Subudhi <joya@subudhi.com>;
> >> > > nav6tf@ipv6forum.com <nav6tf@ipv6forum.com>;
> moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> >> > > <moonv6@iol.unh.edu>
> >> > > Sent: Thu Sep 14 18:55:43 2006
> >> > > Subject: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf]
> >> IPv6 news -
> >> > > weekly summary
> >> > >
> >> > > moonv6 post from Chris Mitchell <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
> >> > > Thanks for testing and confirming this Dave. This is
> >> exactly what
> >> > > we specified as the expected behavior. If anyone has
> >> feedback that
> >> > > this isn't right please let us know.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Chris Mitchell
> >> > > Group Program Manager
> >> > > Windows Networking and Devices
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
> >> [mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
> >> > > <mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com> ] On Behalf Of Dave Green
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 2:44 PM
> >> > > To: Bill Cerveny; Joya Subudhi; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com;
> >> > > moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> >> > > Subject: RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6
> news - weekly
> >> > > summary
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill, et all:
> >> > >
> >> > > We've been aware of this behavior on XP, but had not
> >> checked for it
> >> > > in Vista. Since we run a fully dual-stacked environment this
> >> > > behavior wasn't causing us a problem. However, if it was still
> >> > > present it could cause long lags on IPv4-only
> environments so I
> >> > > tested this today on the Vista Pre-RC1 Build 5536 we are pilot
> >> > > testing for production. To test this, I used an
> >> IPv6-capable packet
> >> > > sniffer to capture and decode all DNS queries with Vista
> >> on our main
> >> > > dual stacked environment, and on the v4-only and IPv6-only
> >> > > environments we run for application testing. This is what I
> >> > > found:
> >> > >
> >> > > -On a native IPv6-dual-stacked connection Vista
> Generated 2 DNS
> >> > > requests for each record and I was able to reach our
> >> IPv6-only content sites.
> >> > >
> >> > > -In our IPv4-only test environment, I only saw requests for A
> >> > > records and requests to our IPv6 only content sites failed.
> >> > >
> >> > > -In our IPv6-only environment, I only saw requests for
> >> AAAA records
> >> > > and our IPv6 content sites worked fine.
> >> > >
> >> > > I believe that this behavior is exactly what we wanted
> >> Vista to do.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > David Green | VP of R&D | Command Information
> >> > > 13655 Dulles Technology Drive, Suite 100 | Herndon, VA 20171
> >> > > O: 703.561.5937 | M: 703.899.9663 |
> green@commandinformation.com
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
> >> [mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
> >> > > <mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Cerveny
> >> > > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:53 PM
> >> > > To: Joya Subudhi; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
> >> > > Subject: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6 news - weekly
> >> > > summary
> >> > >
> >> > > Does anyone have any experience with Vista beta?
> >> > >
> >> > > The two articles below about Vista and DNS melting the
> Internet
> >> > > suggest that Vista will always make two DNS requests; one
> >> for the A
> >> > > record and the other for the AAAA record. While I might
> >> expect this
> >> > > to occur if Vista thinks it is connected to an
> operational IPv6
> >> > > network, will Vista still do this if it doesn't have a
> globally
> >> > > routable IPv6 address or any other indication that it is
> >> connected to an IPv6-enabled network?
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill Cerveny
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:38:21 -0400, "Joya Subudhi"
> >> > > <joya@subudhi.com>
> >> > > said:
> >> > > > IPv6 news - weekly summary
> >> > > > Main News:
> >> > > > Plan for cyberspace available in near future
> >> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2237
> >> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2237>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Other News:
> >> > > > IPv6: The future is now
> >> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2236
> >> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2236>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Security:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Corporate and Products:
> >> > > > Vista's role in Imminent Net Death overstated
> >> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2240
> >> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2240>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Command Information Appoints Greg Sloan to Lead
> >> Commercial Sector
> >> > > > Business Development
> >> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2239
> >> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2239>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Will Vista stall Net traffic?
> >> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2238
> >> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2238>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Using the Network Diagnostic Tester
> >> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2235
> >> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2235>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >
>
>
>

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